Is there such a thing? My father has sepsis as a result from colon surgery and his kidneys are failing. The doctors are holding off on dialysis for now. My questions are (I'll also ask the doc but wanted to know from all your experience):
1. Is there such a thing as one-time dialysis?
2. What are the risks?
3. Once dialysis is done would it need to be continued for life?
thank you
One time dialysis??
Moderator: administrator
Hi,
Sorry to hear about your father, hope he manages to avoid dialysis. In answer to your questions:-
1, There are 2 types of dialysis, Haemodialysis & Peritoneal Dialysis which are quite different.
Haemodialysis involved removing the blood and cleaning it via a machine outside of the body. This would require either a catheter in the neck or chest as a temporary measure or a small operation to strengthen the veins to create a fistula. This is usually in his arms but sometimes in the leg if no suitable vein can be found. Needles are inserted in to the fistula remove the 'dirty' blood and return the 'clean' blood to the body. This is usually done at your local dialysis unit typically for 4 hours at a time, 3 possibly 4 times a week depending on his condition.
Peritoneal Dialysis requires the insertion of a permanent catheter into the peritoneal cavity out through the left or right side of the abdomen. A glucose solution is then put in to fill the cavity, typically around about 2 litres at a time and left for up to 4 hours at a time. The exchange of fluid is done 4 times a days by the patient themselves in their own home, at work or wherever. The biggest risk of this kind is infection so cleanliness is essential. Full training is given and although this all must some very confusing and scary is quite easy and allows you to lead a fairly normal life.
There are slight variation in both Haemodialysis (HD) & Peritoneal dialysis (PD) in that sometimes hemo is done overnight or even at home. With PD you can have a machine do the exchanges automatically overnight and that is the kind of dialysis that I am on. It leaves your whole day free to go and do pretty much anything.
2, the risk, with PD the main risk is from infection as you have a direct tunnel in your stomach area to the inside for germs to travel down. If you get an infection of the peritoneum it is quite serious and requires quick action and strong antibiotics. I have been on PD for 14 months without a single case but others are not so lucky.
Other risks involve not keeping to the renal diet. 2 substances in particular are not as easily removed by dialysis and can build up and cause very serious conditions. Potassium is probably the most dangerous as if too high could cause a heart attack, high phosphate can damage the bones and cause lots of other problems as it binds with calcium in the blood. If there is not enough calcium in the blood it starts to take it from your bones. Full advice is given by a renal dietician and regular blood tests help to keep these under control.
Also when the kidney fail they stop producing a substance called epo, which tell the bone marrow to make red blood cells. As a result it is not uncommon for kidney patients to become anaemic and require iron infusions and regular injections of epo. Like I said you have regular blood tests so these trends are spotted (hopefully).
3, it would depend on the type of renal failure, acute renal failure can recover some maybe all of the renal function sometime but chronic renal failure often ends up in failure. You would require dialysis as described above until a successful transplant or for the rest of your life.
A transplant brings additional complications and risks; some of the transplant recipient here will be able to help you more than I can with this. The bottom line is that a transplant is the best possible treatment and not a cure.
I know this all sounds very scary but we all here will offer you as much support and information as we can. It may be worth seeing if you can meet up with someone from the renal team who can answer your questions and maybe gives you better information than I can. There should be a nurse who job it is to provide counselling and support with in the renal team of you local unit?
I hope this helps you and you father gets better really soon
Mike
Sorry to hear about your father, hope he manages to avoid dialysis. In answer to your questions:-
1, There are 2 types of dialysis, Haemodialysis & Peritoneal Dialysis which are quite different.
Haemodialysis involved removing the blood and cleaning it via a machine outside of the body. This would require either a catheter in the neck or chest as a temporary measure or a small operation to strengthen the veins to create a fistula. This is usually in his arms but sometimes in the leg if no suitable vein can be found. Needles are inserted in to the fistula remove the 'dirty' blood and return the 'clean' blood to the body. This is usually done at your local dialysis unit typically for 4 hours at a time, 3 possibly 4 times a week depending on his condition.
Peritoneal Dialysis requires the insertion of a permanent catheter into the peritoneal cavity out through the left or right side of the abdomen. A glucose solution is then put in to fill the cavity, typically around about 2 litres at a time and left for up to 4 hours at a time. The exchange of fluid is done 4 times a days by the patient themselves in their own home, at work or wherever. The biggest risk of this kind is infection so cleanliness is essential. Full training is given and although this all must some very confusing and scary is quite easy and allows you to lead a fairly normal life.
There are slight variation in both Haemodialysis (HD) & Peritoneal dialysis (PD) in that sometimes hemo is done overnight or even at home. With PD you can have a machine do the exchanges automatically overnight and that is the kind of dialysis that I am on. It leaves your whole day free to go and do pretty much anything.
2, the risk, with PD the main risk is from infection as you have a direct tunnel in your stomach area to the inside for germs to travel down. If you get an infection of the peritoneum it is quite serious and requires quick action and strong antibiotics. I have been on PD for 14 months without a single case but others are not so lucky.
Other risks involve not keeping to the renal diet. 2 substances in particular are not as easily removed by dialysis and can build up and cause very serious conditions. Potassium is probably the most dangerous as if too high could cause a heart attack, high phosphate can damage the bones and cause lots of other problems as it binds with calcium in the blood. If there is not enough calcium in the blood it starts to take it from your bones. Full advice is given by a renal dietician and regular blood tests help to keep these under control.
Also when the kidney fail they stop producing a substance called epo, which tell the bone marrow to make red blood cells. As a result it is not uncommon for kidney patients to become anaemic and require iron infusions and regular injections of epo. Like I said you have regular blood tests so these trends are spotted (hopefully).
3, it would depend on the type of renal failure, acute renal failure can recover some maybe all of the renal function sometime but chronic renal failure often ends up in failure. You would require dialysis as described above until a successful transplant or for the rest of your life.
A transplant brings additional complications and risks; some of the transplant recipient here will be able to help you more than I can with this. The bottom line is that a transplant is the best possible treatment and not a cure.
I know this all sounds very scary but we all here will offer you as much support and information as we can. It may be worth seeing if you can meet up with someone from the renal team who can answer your questions and maybe gives you better information than I can. There should be a nurse who job it is to provide counselling and support with in the renal team of you local unit?
I hope this helps you and you father gets better really soon
Mike
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Julie
Betty,
The answer to your question depends mostly on whether your father is in acute renal failure or chronic renal failure.
With acute renal failure it often means that the kidneys are failing temporarily because of the effects of another illness or medications. For example, I have a friend who had Hogkins disease and had chemotherapy to treat it, and his kidneys failed because of the effects of the chemo on his body. So he did haemodialysis temporarily using an emergency line into an artery in his neck. Eventually, after a couple of months, his kidneys started working again and he no longer needed to have dialysis. Many people with acute renal failure can get their kidney function back, maybe not 100% but enough to keep them off permanent dialysis.
In chronic renal failure, this usually means that the lost kidney function is permanent and won't return. Typically, people who have chronic kidney failure start one form or other of dialysis when they are down to around 10% - 12% of their kidney function, but this depends largely on how they feel and their symptoms.
So, the question you need to ask your father's doctors is, is this acute or chronic renal failure and do they expect or hope that his kidney function will or could return.
Good luck and best wishes to you and your dad. Please let us know how you go on.
Lots of love,
Julie
xxx
The answer to your question depends mostly on whether your father is in acute renal failure or chronic renal failure.
With acute renal failure it often means that the kidneys are failing temporarily because of the effects of another illness or medications. For example, I have a friend who had Hogkins disease and had chemotherapy to treat it, and his kidneys failed because of the effects of the chemo on his body. So he did haemodialysis temporarily using an emergency line into an artery in his neck. Eventually, after a couple of months, his kidneys started working again and he no longer needed to have dialysis. Many people with acute renal failure can get their kidney function back, maybe not 100% but enough to keep them off permanent dialysis.
In chronic renal failure, this usually means that the lost kidney function is permanent and won't return. Typically, people who have chronic kidney failure start one form or other of dialysis when they are down to around 10% - 12% of their kidney function, but this depends largely on how they feel and their symptoms.
So, the question you need to ask your father's doctors is, is this acute or chronic renal failure and do they expect or hope that his kidney function will or could return.
Good luck and best wishes to you and your dad. Please let us know how you go on.
Lots of love,
Julie
xxx
Hi there
As far as I am aware there is no such thing as one time dialysis. It can be done as a temporary measure while doctors wait for a transplanted kidney to start working, but with renal failure, once you start dialysis you are on it for life then unless you get a transplant. That is as far as I know, other people may know different. As far as risk goes, it is impossible to answer that because every individual is different and your Doctor will tell you, but it also depends what you mean by risk. Do you mean the risk of having dialysis or of not having it?
Good luck and take care
Love Vikki
As far as I am aware there is no such thing as one time dialysis. It can be done as a temporary measure while doctors wait for a transplanted kidney to start working, but with renal failure, once you start dialysis you are on it for life then unless you get a transplant. That is as far as I know, other people may know different. As far as risk goes, it is impossible to answer that because every individual is different and your Doctor will tell you, but it also depends what you mean by risk. Do you mean the risk of having dialysis or of not having it?
Good luck and take care
Love Vikki
Even with your eyes closed, may you see the light at the end of the tunnel
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Anne in Va
- Posts: 246
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- Location: Virginia
Hi Betty,
Julie is spot on when she talks about the difference between acute and chronic failure.
I have heard of cases where one or a few treatments of dialysis have been used to remove toxins. In other cases of acute failure treatments of dialysis have been used over a period of time to assist the kidneys in their recovery. Dialysis sort of "gives the kidneys a break" and allows them to recover without struggling so hard to work.
Follow Julie's advice and ask what they expect jn your husband's case.
By the way, I live just down the road from you near Quantico.
Love, Anne
Julie is spot on when she talks about the difference between acute and chronic failure.
I have heard of cases where one or a few treatments of dialysis have been used to remove toxins. In other cases of acute failure treatments of dialysis have been used over a period of time to assist the kidneys in their recovery. Dialysis sort of "gives the kidneys a break" and allows them to recover without struggling so hard to work.
Follow Julie's advice and ask what they expect jn your husband's case.
By the way, I live just down the road from you near Quantico.
Love, Anne
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Rachel in NY
- Posts: 650
- Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 1:11 pm
- Location: NY, USA,
Hi Betty,
You raise an interesting point. Let us backtrack to when I was orignally diagnosed with Kidney issues. I had a severe UTI, and rushed to the hospital with high fever & severe dehydration. Within hours I was told I was in acute kidney failure, and then put on dialysis through a catheter in my neck. within days. Needless to say, I was told its coming out.. its only temporary.. as I had "acute" kidney failure. Well, interestingly enough, a few months later I DID come off of it. I was on heavy antibiotics, steriods, and all sorts of stuff. But you know what? A ve ry short time later I had another incident, and this time was told that it never was "acute" - its the real thing. And I went on dialysis again.. till I received my transplant.
All went well, until this year when a series of infections and things kept me in the hospital and my transplanted kidney wasn't behaving like she should. After I started feeling progressively worse, (yet with no signs of rejection as per a biopsy) I was put on dialysis AGAIN! And that is where I am at today. However, read between the lines here bc I'm afraid to jinx anything - but as of this friday, lets just say I won't be going back for dialysis anymore. lol. Its ending.
So can someone go on dialysis as a "crutch" for ones existing kidney? Can someone go on dialysis and get off of it - without getting a transplant? Yes, its happened to me. Is it normal? I don't know. It all depends on what is going on with your father. It makes alot of sense that he can get a short bout of dialysis to help his kidneys as his body strengthens, and then he can get off. But nothing is certain.
best of luck to you and your dad,
rachel
You raise an interesting point. Let us backtrack to when I was orignally diagnosed with Kidney issues. I had a severe UTI, and rushed to the hospital with high fever & severe dehydration. Within hours I was told I was in acute kidney failure, and then put on dialysis through a catheter in my neck. within days. Needless to say, I was told its coming out.. its only temporary.. as I had "acute" kidney failure. Well, interestingly enough, a few months later I DID come off of it. I was on heavy antibiotics, steriods, and all sorts of stuff. But you know what? A ve ry short time later I had another incident, and this time was told that it never was "acute" - its the real thing. And I went on dialysis again.. till I received my transplant.
All went well, until this year when a series of infections and things kept me in the hospital and my transplanted kidney wasn't behaving like she should. After I started feeling progressively worse, (yet with no signs of rejection as per a biopsy) I was put on dialysis AGAIN! And that is where I am at today. However, read between the lines here bc I'm afraid to jinx anything - but as of this friday, lets just say I won't be going back for dialysis anymore. lol. Its ending.
So can someone go on dialysis as a "crutch" for ones existing kidney? Can someone go on dialysis and get off of it - without getting a transplant? Yes, its happened to me. Is it normal? I don't know. It all depends on what is going on with your father. It makes alot of sense that he can get a short bout of dialysis to help his kidneys as his body strengthens, and then he can get off. But nothing is certain.
best of luck to you and your dad,
rachel
"When life keeps giving you lemons, get to work and make a tall frosted pitcher of icy cold lemonade."
Hello.....I believe artificial dialysis was originally conceived in the 30s or 40s to treat acute renal failure, for people who were in hospital for other problems, whose kidneys had failed due to surgery/shock/disease. So, in that sense it was "one-off" dialysis.
It was only later that it came to be used for long-term patients.
I watched a vid of the history of dialysis, one of many, while 'idling' my hours away at the home haemo clinic. THe oldest footage was from the 40s and 'whoa!' what primitive equipment. White coated 'boffins' mixing up the dialysis fluid by hand (well, bucket actually) in huge vat(s). And I won't go into the patient access, it was too Boris Karloff !!!
It was only later that it came to be used for long-term patients.
I watched a vid of the history of dialysis, one of many, while 'idling' my hours away at the home haemo clinic. THe oldest footage was from the 40s and 'whoa!' what primitive equipment. White coated 'boffins' mixing up the dialysis fluid by hand (well, bucket actually) in huge vat(s). And I won't go into the patient access, it was too Boris Karloff !!!
waves...Bear
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JMan
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[quote="Rachel in NY"]Hi Betty,
I was put on dialysis AGAIN! And that is where I am at today. However, read between the lines here bc I'm afraid to jinx anything - but as of this friday, lets just say I won't be going back for dialysis anymore. lol. Its ending.
Hmmm... reading between the lines???
1. posibility that (grim) your just stopping dialysis & leaving us.. (nasty I know but I know of people who've done that.
2 . your kidney function has come back sufficient to work (if your tx wasn't taken out, I'm not sure.)
3. Someone is willing to give you a live donation
Any of these right??
Yours intruigedly.
JMan
I was put on dialysis AGAIN! And that is where I am at today. However, read between the lines here bc I'm afraid to jinx anything - but as of this friday, lets just say I won't be going back for dialysis anymore. lol. Its ending.
Hmmm... reading between the lines???
1. posibility that (grim) your just stopping dialysis & leaving us.. (nasty I know but I know of people who've done that.
2 . your kidney function has come back sufficient to work (if your tx wasn't taken out, I'm not sure.)
3. Someone is willing to give you a live donation
Any of these right??
Yours intruigedly.
JMan
"Dialysis! What is this? The dark ages!"
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gary in bc
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 2:40 am
- Location: Campbell River, British Columbia, Canada
Hi
I tend to agree with Julie. When I first got sick, about 10 years ago, I suffered acute kidney failure. I was put on dialysis with neck line for about a month. My kidneys came back, and worked for about 8 + years. I knew I had Chronic renal failure, but was able to prolong it through diet and medication. If your friend has acute renal failure, I would suggest they see a nepholigist and keep on top of the kidney funtion they now have. This may be an early warning of things to come.
Gary
I tend to agree with Julie. When I first got sick, about 10 years ago, I suffered acute kidney failure. I was put on dialysis with neck line for about a month. My kidneys came back, and worked for about 8 + years. I knew I had Chronic renal failure, but was able to prolong it through diet and medication. If your friend has acute renal failure, I would suggest they see a nepholigist and keep on top of the kidney funtion they now have. This may be an early warning of things to come.
Gary
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Betty
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- Location: Sprinfield, VA, USA - Suburb of Washington, D.C.
Thank you all for your replies. He has been started on continual renal replacement therapy. He remains in a drug induced coma and temporarily remains on a ventilator to let his body rest. We have been told this is the way to treat sepsis, staff infections, and acute renal failure. So far everything I've read on the internet is on par with the treatment he's getting.