Organic Food..

[AmitChouhan]

Has anyone been advised to eat organic food to prevent toxins from building up so that the kidney doesnt have to work as hard?

It's just that I saw a fitness instructor/"wellness" guru-type-thingy last week and he suggested that organic food would help the kidney...

Thanks.

[Thumps]

Sounds all a bit new age to me.... I reckon the advice is the same as always - eat a healthy, balanced diet, within the confines of whatever restrictions your doctors tell you.

I doubt it matters much if your fruit n veg was mass produced or organic; there's precious little (if any) evidence that organic produce is better for you, other than perhaps in terms of taste.

Avoiding heavily processed foods is where us kidney patients probably make the most gains - ready meals, takeaways and so on. The most ill I've felt recently (I'm not on any dietary restrictions at the moment) was when I made the mistake of having some Crispy Duck pancakes at a chinese restaurant. The MSG-laden hoi sin sauce I think was the culprit, I felt ill for days afterwards!

[jenjen]

agree with thumps.

I'd also add that washing fruit/veg can get rid of most pesticides.

Even what purports to be organic isnt necessarily so as different certifications of organic status vary and most companys themselves will do just what they need to get the status and that's it. Something that claims to be organic only needs to be a certain percentage organic to get status...

so, what I am saying is that yes it's better to eat organic for taste, but i think the benefits are unproven and in the grand scheme of things it's not going to make much difference to your kidney.

Can the toxins be cleared by the kidney anyway? Are the molecules small enough? Or are they metabolised by the liver? Or do they just get blitzed by stomach acid? I'm not sure a wellness practitioner has solid knowledge of pesticides and the body's filtering system?

[JMan]

Sorry!?
Org food tends to have some higher rate of nutritional value than 'modern' produce, due to the way it's grown but the margins can be small.

Overall the nutritional value of all fruit & veg has dropped, as we're still dumb enough to look at appearance as an overall value., & keep breeding apples, tomatoes, potatoes etc to 'look better & last longer on the shelf'

That said, organic fruit & veg shipped from Africa & Israel.. Sinful as we can grow just about everything over here!

It's your liver that processes toxins, as I understand it. I try to avoid excess crap in my food, it's bad enough being on meds, without adding. Besides, our meds are mostly made by the same companies that produce, pest, herb & fungicides:)

We;ve got a shortage of crops this year, due to a new herbicide (now withdrawn)

THis topics been covered a number of times in the past:) Search will bring it up.

Take a look at the PAN & Soil Association sites if your interested in the topic.

http://www.pan-uk.org/index.htm

http://www.soilassociation.org/

I must say I've enjoyed some very tasty, apples, plums, blackberries, green beans, tomatoes, spuds, raspberries, strawberries & honey from my mum & dad's allotments:)

[MandyV]

Whilst I have never had that specific advice, I do eat a mostly organic diet (but also balanced) and if not organic, like some of the meat I eat, I make sure that it comes from a good butcher who is aware of the provenance of the meat - so in general I avoid food which is pumped full of pesticides, growth hormones and the like. I do feel that this is one reason why, kidneys aside, I am extremely healthy and seldom get even a cold.

I do grow fruit and veg at my allotment, and supplement with an organic box scheme, and never buy ready prepared food (too many additives, preservatives etc). But I would say that buying locally produced, as fresh produce as possible has a far wider goal for me than 'just' my kidneys!

[dkjane]

http://www.scorecard.org/health-effects ... dn&all_p=t

List toxins. WOW, it is sooo long!

I was trying to find some phthalate free cosmetics.It's proably not allowed in European cosmetic or maybe in very small permissible amounts.
Would any of you ladies know a site for safe cosmetics w. a list of wellknown brands?
Jane

[Mike]

It's just that I saw a fitness instructor/"wellness" guru-type-thingy last week and he suggested that organic food would help the kidney...

Doubt he knows any more than you or me about it, in fact I'd say we know more about it than he ever would.

The vast majority of organic food is a con and is produced by the same chemical companies that produce the pesticides used in non organic food.

Monsanto that ever so ethical chemical company who invented agent orange, DDT amongst other crimes is a major producer of so called organic food!

http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/?lid=210

MONSANTO

A Corporate Profile
www.monsanto.com

Corporate Crimes
Monsanto have an impressive history of committing corporate crimes [40]. Recent Monsanto crimes include:

BST
BST or rBGH marketed by Monsanto as Posilac is a genetically engineered hormone designed to make cows produce more milk. Large amounts of research indicate that BST use has serious implications for the health and welfare of dairy cattle, including making cows more prone to mastitis and sores [41].
Because of evidence that BST milk may cause breast cancer, colon cancer and prostate cancer in humans, it is banned in Europe. Monsanto is trying to overturn the ban [42].

Contaminating our food with GM crops
As the market leaders in GM crops it is Monsanto who have been largely responsible for contaminating the global food chain with GM crops. The long term health effects of eating GM crops are as yet unknown.

Contaminating our environment with GM crops
The long term effects of Monsanto’s GM crops on the environment are as yet unknown. In areas where RoundUp Ready crops are being grown commercially, herbicide tolerance is being spread to neighbouring crops and wild plants by cross pollination. Rather than reducing the amount of chemicals used in farming RoundUp Ready crops are locking farmers into a chemical dependant farming system [43].

Several scientific studies have suggested that the Bt technology utilised by Monsanto in their Bollgard, YieldGard and NewLeaf insect resistant crops may kill ‘non-pest’ insects such as the Monarch butterfly [44].

Developing world
Having encountered increasing opposition to GM technology in the developed global north, Monsanto have put more energy into pushing their products in the developing global south. An example of this being the attempt by Monsanto/Mahyco to rush their Bt insect resistant cotton through the Indian government’s regulatory process and on to the market. The decision on allowing commercial growing of Bt cotton was postponed for a year in the face massive opposition from Indian farmers and NGOs all over the world [45].

Terminator Technology
Monsanto holds a patent for 'terminator' technology. Terminator technology involves the genetically engineering of plants to produce sterile seeds thus forcing farmers to buy new seed every year, rather than saving their own seed from year to year. Monsanto has said it will not use this technology but still holds the patents and may use it in future [46].

Corporate Bully Boys
Monsanto don’t like the thought of anyone publicly disagreeing with them or worse still pulling a fast one on them. Where their GM crops are being grown commercially Monsanto have paid a small army of private investigators to check whether farmers are growing their GM crops without permission. Monsanto have successfully sued a Canadian farmer Percy Schmeiser for supposedly planting GM oil seed rape without a license agreement. Percy claims that he has never planted GM crops on his land and that any GM crops on his land are a result of cross pollination from GM crops grown on neighbouring farms. He is launching a counter suit against Monsanto [47].

In 1997 2 TV journalists Steve Wilson and Jane Akre who had been making a documentary on the dangers of Monsanto’s BST were fired by their employers Fox TV. Fox TV had come under pressure from Monsanto to change the content of the documentary, when Wilson and Akre refused to be muzzled they were sacked [48].

In 1998 Monsanto took out a wide ranging SLAPP (Stategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation) against activists from Genetix Snowball. At the time Genetix Snowball were engaged in a campaign of accountable, non-violent direct action against GM crops. The injunction was designed to intimidate members of the public into not taking direct action against Monsanto’s UK GM field trials [49].

In 1998 the environmental journal the Ecologist was due to publish a special edition attacking Monsanto. However, the Ecologist's printers - Penwells of Saltash, Cornwall, destroyed the 14,000 print run without notice fearing liable action from Monsanto [50].

Climate Change Co-option
Monsanto have seen the potential for new markets for their GM products within the mechanisms of the 1997 Kyoto Protocol on climate change [51]. Since 1998 Monsanto has been one of the principle corporations attempting to hijack the UN climate change negotiations for its own ends. Monsanto claims that its products offer high tech solutions in the battle to reduce CO2 emissions. Monsanto hopes to gain carbon credits in two ways.

1. Monsanto claims that wide spread use of RoundUp Ready crops will reduce the need for ploughing thus keeping large quantities of CO2 locked in the soil.

2. Monsanto hopes to be a major provider of GM trees for forestry ‘carbon sinks’ (large areas of forests planted to soak up CO2 emissions). Monsanto are close to commercialising RoundUp Ready trees and are rumoured to be developing carbon absorbing trees and plants.

If you think that buiying organic food automatically equals tastier you are going to be very disappointed. The crap you buy from tesco is still crap whether it says organic on it or not and I doubt you would taste any difference between the organic and non organic versions

Anyway make you own mind up but keep an open mind!

http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006/08 ... ganic.html

I believe that organic food is a con, is not necessarily more healthy for you, tastes no different, and is damaging to the environment.

There, I have got that off my chest, but unfortunately I now feel like I have just admitted to being a child murderer, a racist or even a supporter of George Bush's foreign policy.

Let me explain...

The word organic is now synonymous with everything good, healthy and caring. To be against organic is to be seen to be almost evil. Organic food has huge sections devoted to it in our supermarkets, and its not just food - our shampoos, clothing and beer can all be marketed as 'organic'.

What does the word mean? Its original meaning was a scientific one. The chemistry of carbon-based molecules is described as organic chemistry. As such organic chemistry is the chemistry of life. In this definition, everything alive, and everything we eat, drink or wear (as long as it is natural fibres) is organic. In science, all apples are organic. Indeed all crops are organic. But that is not what the supermarkets mean when the flog us expensive 'organic' veg.

In this context, organic is used to denote crops that have been grown according to certain standards. Those standards are certified by the Soil Association. This body was set up in the forties by a group of people who wanted to turn away from the growing industrialisation of agriculture which they saw as damaging in various ways, environmentally, bodily and spiritually. Their philosophy had been heavily influenced by Rudolph Steiner who had a lot of mystical beliefs about the nature of soil. The basis of the philosophy was that farming should make use of local materials and maximise the use of manures and local grown animal feeds. Other beliefs involved planting at certain phases of the moon and encouraging 'elemental forces' into animals and seeking the help of 'non-physical beings'.

Now it does not really matter if some of the more unhinged ideas were clearly batshit. The Soil Association has continued with the ideas about using manure rather than fertiliser, limited pesticides and limited drugs. The reason for this is so that we have healthier food, more sustainable farming and other benefits like better tasting food and less impact on wildlife.

Great. But the big question is to ask if this is actually true. What evidence is there that organic farming is healthier, tastier, more environmentally friendly and more sustainable?

Now the Quackometer Project is about exposing exaggerated health claims and so I would like to focus on the health claims for organic farming methods. Dick Tavern in his excellent book, The March of Unreason – science, democracy and the new fundamentalism, devotes a chapter to exposing the myths of organic methods and points out things like:

* Tests conducted by independent consumer organisations show that people cannot taste the difference between organic and non-organic foods.
* The rules for pesticides and fungicides use have no 'rhyme or reason'. Older, more damaging chemicals like copper sulphate are allowed, but more modern and specific ones are not.
* If most farming became organic then we would have returned to a time when crops were vulnerable to large scale blights, high labour costs were required and low yields the norm. The poorest in the world would suffer enormously.
* Low yield crops need more land and that is damaging to the environment with more forest clearing and less land set aside.

So what about health? The main issue tends to focus on the 'evils' of pesticide residues. The problem here is that although pesticides can harm in large doses, there is no evidence that they harm at the minute quantities left on foods. As Dick Tavern points out in his book,

In fact every mouthful of food contains some poison, as does every sip of water. Carcinogenic' substances are routinely consumed by all of us in the form of natural chemicals made by plants to repel predators, but at amounts so low they do not harm us. ... There are some dioxons in every breath of air we take

It's all in the dose. Only homeopathists believe that insignificant doses have huge effects. Sir John Krebbs in Nature noted that a cup of [even organic] coffee contains natural carcinogens equal to a year's ingestion of synthetic carcinogenic substances found in the diet. Part of the problem is that our analytical measurement techniques can spot the tiniest traces of substances. But just because we can detect something does not mean that we need worry about it. Plants produce their own natural pesticides and we consume far more of that than the trace residues of the artificial stuff sprayed on. Concern about pesticide residue is just a modern phobia with no basis in evidence.

If there is little basis in fact for the claims made by the organic movement then it looks like the word organic is just one more advertising word used to push expensive, unnecessary products on us. Furthermore, and more damning, by focusing on organic production, our society pays less attention to farming methods and technology advances that really could improve health, protect wildlife and ensure a consistent quality and quantity of food supply. Rather than securing our health, the illogical worship of the word 'organic' could be damaging us all.

As such, I have no reservation in including the word 'organic' in the Quackometer Project. Promoting food that is grown according to 'organic' principles because it is supposed to be healthier for us is just one more form of quackery.

[JMan]

ROFL (Thats "Rolling on the floor laughing," for those of you who don't do webspeak) wait till the topic runs into biodynamically produced foods!:)

A better idea, let people make their own minds up!:) Teeehee.

[Mike]

if you wanna spend you life with your head in the sand about who really makes the majority of organic food please don't let me stop you. Like you said make your own mind up but at least open your mind and actually find out something about it

[Bill]

Just another point to ponder.

The only way the world can support its current and future population is because in advances in such things as pesticide and herbicides.

Without these things food would be MUCH more expensive and scarce.

Now that's not to say they should be used irresponsibly, but I don't think most people realize the advances that have been made and how comfortable they have made our lives.

Bill

[SteveUK]

I just eat food.....

I don't buy organic.....then again.... I am put off by the exorbitant prices.....in these hard times, I know what food I'll be buying....if it tastes nice and is healthy (or if not) and is of good value for money, I'll eat it....fair enough.... I've got kidney failure..

But do I HONESTLY believe that could have been caused by too many pesticides on my food, just because I choose to not eat organically? Ludicours, absolutely ludicrous...

[Rachel in NY]

I agree with bill.

I was thinking about 'going organic' but then decided that i'd rather run the risk of pesticides (although i wash and peel fruit generally) then run the risk of being contaminated by some funky and third world and generelly extinct organism. Knowing me, i'd get that fruit with the organism.

fruit/veggies are filthy by nature. so are eggs. i believe eggs top the list in filthy foods. melons is another one. these stuff are dirty enough without adding odd strains of organisms to the mix.

so fruit and veggies with pesticides, scrubbed and peeled, is better in my opeinion for myself.

however, each to their own.

i was/am thinking about switching to organic chickens though. too much hormones in the chickens.. not something i'm happy about.

[JMan]

I could hug you! Tho I may absorb the evil substances in your clothes!!


*GRINS MADLY*

I'm loving this thread!!